…When To Hold ‘Em, Know When To Fold ‘Em
Volatile markets and choppy sideways action, which way will the markets break? As daily cycles begin to age and the FOMC meeting approaches, it may be best to listen to the words of the gambler – You’ve got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em, know when to walk away, and know when to run – Kenny Rogers . I am scaling back on trades going into the FOMC meeting next week and wait for the fat pitch, the ICL in Precious Metals.
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SPX – DCL? Bear Flag? FOMC? The general markets are due timing wise for a dcl, but I’m looking for a sign of strength.
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WTIC – Oil has been struggling. Do I think the bullish move higher back over $50 is finished? No, but short term I have my concerns. The current Daily cycle looks left translated, and that leads me to another thought since Oils daily cycles can go on for up to 50 days at times…
WTIC – I thought that this was an ICL, but if this doesn’t start to fly higher, I now need to re-think things, and have found a couple of weaknesses.
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After an ICL , the first daily cycle is usually strong and right translated.
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Is this an ICL? So far it is very left translated, so it doesn’t act like a 1st daily cycle.
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Could this be a 4th daily cycle rolling over into the real ICL? Possibly.
NOTE: Since we could see upward of 50 days in a daily cycle for Oil, it could still burst higher and become right translated. I keep that in the back of my mind, but lets also consider this. Todays Inventory report was bullish, and Oil spiked and then rolled back over. That is obvious weakness. Also the XLE has been very strong, even as OIL rolled over and sold off, it was holding up. For example:
As of last Friday SEPT 9th, the XLE was bullish looking
XLE – Suddenly this week the XLE and energy stocks are sucking wind. Running in place. Losing ground fast. Does this seem like action from a 1st daily cycle out of an ICL, or does this seem like Oil is now seeking out an ICL with the XLE , XOP, etc. reacting to that? IF you have ‘stops’ in your energy stocks , honor them or just lighten up if you cannot endure draw down. OIL may be dropping into an ICL.
Gold
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It was mentioned in the comments yesterday that a reader thought that I was ‘just too positive on these markets’ all the time, so let me address that here. Yes, I have been Bullish on Gold and Oil in 2016. I do believe that we have seen MAJOR bear markets in Oil and Gold, and I have stated that I believe they bottomed this year. We have made lots of great trades and money coming out of these lows, but we have also had normal bull market re-tracements. These are not a time to be too afraid to trade, and scaring people at ICL’s is not healthy if you understand the opportunity that an ICL presents. I’m not an emotional person while trading, but I do try to constantly keep us on the right side of the trade, so I am not always Bullish short term. I do call for ‘caution’ when timing indicates that we are close to dropping into a DCL or especially an ICL. If you have been with me for more than a few weeks, you’ve seen that some trades that I mention I add that one should only be taken by experienced traders, or those in front of the screen, due to their volatility. I do take some of those Trade set ups and clearly state that these are for those in front of the screen all day if they are higher risk. I look for the low risk set ups when they present themselves at DCL’s and ICLS, and normal pull backs to support. Am I bullish or positive on GOLD & OIL in the long run? Yes. Have I mentioned that caution was needed trading near the FOMC and when timing is due for an ICL? I absolutely have. If someone then takes a trade and loses money on it in a 3rd or 4th daily cycle of an intermediate cycle, the risks were known and hopefully you allowed your loss to be small with a reasonable stop in place. In the Long Run, if Gold runs to $2500 or so in the next few yrs, most of these Miners are still much lower than they will be then. I mention that for those readers that also email me and tell me that they ‘have been holding XXXX since 2011, will it return to the highs?’ Wow, that is patience! In the long run they should be profitable again, if they are managed well by management .
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GOLD– On August 26th I was saying that a drop to an ICL is steep. I even drew what a drop to $1250 would look like.
GOLD did bounce from there, but with the FOMC mtg next week and lack of follow through now, I am not sure that Gold has much more upside before seeking that ICL out, so I am cautious again.
GDX – DO you remember this AUG 31st chart? I pictured us bouncing to the 50sma and failing, rolling over into an ICL. Maybe Just a bounce, not a huge rally, but I was taking the trade set up as a late DCL in case we got more follow through than I expected. I was still telling readers to be cautious, maybe it was only for experienced traders, and make it a short term trade.
GDX SEPT 2 WEEKLY – Maybe just a bounce, but this reversal was trade-able. I don’t feel that I was all positive, but as a dcl, I did expect just a bounce and a short 8-12 day trade for traders.
GDX SEPT 9th– Not all ‘Positive’ 🙂 – I have been calling for downside possibilities into an ICL. We did get the expected bounce, and I was playing the trade set up in Miners. Some Miners could out perform, but caution was advised.
GDX – The bounce is all that we got so far. Hold them? Fold them? With the FOMC meeting coming up next week, I will be lightening up assuming that we could drop to an ICL.
I was asked, “What if Miners put their ICL in ahead of Gold, and they take off upside with out us?” If it were to take off upside and the ICL was in place, we would have 2-3 months of good trading gains ahead of us and that is plenty of time to get in to a few nice profitable positions. Missing THE LOW is not Missing the profits. Look at the chart above and look at the run from the January ICL and look at the run from the May ICL. We are close to another one of those, and you wont miss it – they last for months 🙂
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It is now getting later in the daily cycle and the FOMC meeting is next week. If we got another bigger bounce, we could be making a peak on day 12, but there really is no follow through so far. An ICL is when the Bears start getting brave and begin shorting Miners and the longs get frustrated and start selling, so trade set ups do not follow through. Miners can drop a good amount when they are seeking out an ICL. If one owns a core position from months ago, they can ride it out and price should still be higher in a month or so. If you took a recent trade like I did ( Like my BTG trade), one has to ask if it is best to hold ’em or Fold ’em? Next weeks FOMC mtg could push Miners lower. I like to say ‘Enjoy your Thursday trading’ – but I admit that trading has been very difficult in this environment. Up one day, down the next. It may be time to fold ’em, knowing that better days are ahead!
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~ALEX
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Thank you Alex. Your great attitude and amazing insight has paid off for myself ( not yet a pro ). We have made $ since joining.
Everyone at chart Freak has been kind and helpful as well. Have a great day everyone!
Thanks Johnny – I agree that everyone in this community has contributed in a great way. Everyone ( including you for sure) are always kind and having fun , even in the tough trading times.
Let me add…
Many really good readers here! Even when it was mentioned that some
think I am too positive on the markets all the time ( and I tend to
disagree a bit), it really helps me to see that maybe I am not coming
across the way I think I am when I write about being cautious. I can
work on that, and so that is constructive too. It was worded kindly,
and that is appreciated.
We have a good group of people signed up here.
Thanks, CF. You do extoll caution at times, but I would certainly consider you an optimist (but that’s a good thing!). Many newer traders are overly emotional and I definitely fall in that camp. So, thanks for really spelling that out here. This was my favorite report this week.
I did poorly b/c I thought oil would go right translated and I was surprised by the sudden weakness. By the time you called it, I was SLOW to change my plan. I also made two trades where I broke my own rules (NO!!!!), so while I am very frustrated by the markets the last week, I broke my trading rules, not CF! Discipline is a pain, especially when working full time (and work has been TOUGH)!! So, all that to say thanks for taking the extra time to explain. Sometimes we need to here “caution” “lighten”, “sell if not sure” more than once.
And, NO Maria, if you’re wondering I am NOT the reader mentioned in the report nor did I email that. BUT, I was hidden in the report yesterday…
giggle…
beauty is in the eye of the beholder… it’s funny as I see the opposite in CF …I think he leans much more on the cautious side as to ‘protect’ newer traders … i have always wished he would post more aggressive trades and ideas but I understand that others might try and take those trades that may not be ready which we all know could be devastating.. idk perhaps some may inadvertently transfer his optimistic nature & person hood into his written analysis…
just my 2cents as a long time friend…
Alex your cycle analysis has added a whole new dimension to the way I look at things and trade, and I love it. I think the biggest challenge is in finding the exact right time to enter a trade. It’s really easy to just plow some cash into something because you say it is a good idea, but we each need to take the time to watch the ticks and make our own decisions.
Some of us don’t get the less subtle, sometimes I get thick headed and need to get poked with a fork and told “sell you dumb twit” so that I listen. 😛 we all gotta have our faults…
Cason, want to share your rules? Maybe it will help the rest of us?
thats easy.. buy at the top, sell at the bottom.
and repeat after me.. buy at the top, sell at the bottom.
LOL…Sounds so simple and wise….why can I never do it?!
are you sure you can never do it?
its so easy, like falling outta bed… me & Cason are self-declared specialists 🙂
I’ve been doing that for years!
I should do that – put all of my rules down! As soon as I figure them out!
I made 3 mistakes: 1) I was using mental stops but didn’t have the discipline to enact all of them (I did on some) – b/c I didn’t want to get taken out by a shakeout in what I considered a bull move. Also, I was just simply too busy at work to watch all day and I knew that so I needed a) just set hard stops as the price got closer to my line and b) know when to fold them!
2) I didn’t take profits when I had it. I had a BIG day last Tues and Thurs – 2 of my accounts were at highs for the year. So, next time you get that “I should just cash out and leave the casino” feeling, do something about it. I knew I had too much on the table but didn’t act. Mistake.
3) Too closely dated options. I have rules about when I can by what expiration option and I bought near dated weeklies and then we went into an up and down overall consolidation. That’s death for time premium; broke my rule as I should have bought further out and knew it.
So, hope I can help everyone else learn. I still make plenty of mistakes, but at least now with CF I’m learning to identify them and move forward. 🙂
Pretty much sus up my thoughts as well Cason, I let my own discipine slide,
I really hope you don’t change your approach Alex. It is the reason I am here and not intending to go anywhere else for the great coaching and guidance that you provide. I love the serious comment mixed with banter that gets us smiling – sometimes in the face of adversity caused by volatile markets. I love the fact that you share your trades with us in real time and I have profited many times by getting on board when you do.
Alex, I, also, think you have the right formula now. Many times I would have been shaken from a position but have relied on your experience and insight to preserver and salvage victory from the jaws of defeat. The fault in my loses/give backs stem from not being able to manage risk/reward with my tolerance for pain, and unwilling to sell outright losers in a timely manner. These hard times were bound to come and we are fortunate that we have been able to delay such real “soul-searching”.
I added one more thought to the very end of the report, after my name. Please go back and read it if you read the report before 8 a.m.
pump up the moral
see the graph and more specific where it’s mention below 35 !!!!!
will email this to the boss since I just get it in this box –
Alex, is it fair to say that, generally speaking, GDXJ leads GDX and that Silver leads Gold?
It seems that I’ve noticed that relationship, which is similar to NDX leading SPX – that risk-on vs. risk-off concept
At times, but Silver did not lead Gold recently. Gold bottomed in Dec 2015, Silver meandered and gold took off higher while Silver lagged a bit. GDXJ vs GDX I havent noticed any lead, but I have seen many juniors out perform %-wise .
SOG thanks for the offer to overlay some of the charts. I have been stopped out of lots. Can you do the overlay for cash!!!! kidding. Here is one with an interesting chart that might be fun to look at SRAQU.
send me a email to and i’ll tell you my settings in TC2000
Cash – too funny. Can I get an overlay for my EKG on a Fed week?
Someone mentioned that copper was up. I looked at the finviz.com copper futures chart and it just looks like wiggles to me. That being said, I wonder if gold will loose its leadership role in the next leg and that maybe copper or uranium will lead???
Copper was up 2.5% just yesterday but miners didn’t move, idk seems to be an isolation move. Maybe she was catching up. I’m still basing counts and cycles on gold.
Yes, sorry, I mentioned it and I meant yesterday, nit the futures this morning.
HI Alex
How do you tell the difference between a stop run and the beginning of a waterfall decline if already in timing band for cycle low? Obviously if beginning a waterfall decline then the cycle will stretch or we have to rephrase cycle count… but obviously we don’t want to hold into a waterfall…
Hi Frank – That’s a tough one, because various cases can differ. Sometimes you can’t tell real time. It is the reversal back higher back above the lows that were broken, and even a break above the 10 sma that shows it was a shake out .
SO here is what happens, people get stopped out below the lows and they refuse to re-enter higher. For me, I have been stopped out and it is mentally hard to re-enter, but I will do it if circumstances are right.
So for example: say the GDX lows are at $30, I get stopped out at $29, and then it reverses higher and re-gains the $30+ into the close I have to re-buy at $31 the next day. Many will say, “No way am I getting in $2 higher than where I got stopped out ” but if it is within a dcl or ICL timing, the stop run has many shorting it, and the shorts cover, buyers step in, and it runs to $50+.
Kind of along story, I should have left it with , “Sometimes you cant tell in real time, you need to wait for it to recover and move higher. ” 🙂
Alex.. TPLM!.. but low volume so far
that looks like the B wave spike of an ABC
Still holding the 10sma : )
I am Not sure what the fuss is about when it comes to you being too positive on the Markets. You give Both sides of a trade which is what a good analyst does, do not change a thing my friend……..
Well……..other than your Oil thoughts this morning. 😉 JK ! Good example though of what I said above.
meow
no fuss…just ‘sharing’ kumbaya Style
giggle
Oil has me in limbo : ) tough one here
Alex
Working on the USD Cycle count this morning.
Do you concur with the chart below ?
I think it does based on your weekend report.
What just happened? JNUG went from the red to up .78….I don’t see any big thing that might have changed? Except dollar isn’t up as much….?
Hm, about same time yesterday I think it did the same thing…?
I’m thoroughly confused, I can’t follow miners here, they are all over the place. I liked the early morning setup, was going to day trade but then they broke down lower than expected versus just testing so I let it alone. Damn
I agree…very confusing. I don’t often do the 3X ETF’s since getting burned a few years ago, but have been watching JNUG this past week…..got in and out one day and at least made $150 (not making $ on anything else right now so……)……..wanted to jump in today so was watching it and walked away for 10 minutes and boom….it had gone from 17 something to 19….was kicking myself…..but couldn’t see anything much that would have caused it – the only thing that was different was the dollar had started creeping back down a bit and wasn’t up as much – so to me it seems like the dollar is the main catalyst for that fund…..gold hadn’t even changed that much at that point….now the $ is down .01 and JNUG is up by about $1.30 ….I jumped in a little bit ago (just 200 shares)……have a $90 gain so far…I’ll sell today though – won’t hold….be happy with my $90….if I had enough guts I would have bought more…but….I’m not that gutsy….not in this market….
Yeah, should have sold while it was up…..but who knows what might happen in a couple of hours…:)
How’d you make out?
Welllll…..I held on til end of day and am still holding the shares….so right now I have a loss of $128….we’ll see how tomorrow plays out…I totally intended on selling….but it was so up and down and up and down…..couldn’t quite catch it when I wanted to….dollar seemed to be sliding at end of day so I decided to see if maybe….just maybe….dollar will fall a bit and it will climb a bit in the morning so I can get out….I see after hours it’s up .09…..and dollar is down 2 cents…so ……hoping for a bump up in the morn! 🙂 🙂
A buck is a buck – nice trade! JNUG usually swoons early afternoon. Watch it start to come back right about 2:30 Eastern. Stay at it! 🙂
A lot of the golds have flipped to green. Don’t know why.
There are two telling charts that I am watching closely for direction in Oil: PSCE which is a small cap energy etf and USO. They both help clear out the noise and let me see what is really going on. I’ve watched PSCE closely for several years. It’s a small fund and I’ve never owned it, but it always seems to tell the story, and right now it says that we are mid-move. USO tells me that volume is contracting, but it needs to tighten up more and therefore might not be ready for the move yet.
Sold CHK (+25%) and LPI (-9%) on this bounce. Now only holding GHL and AG. Win some, lose some.
I got stopped out of LPI yesterday about 11.65 or so, made maybe 2-3% – at least a few bucks, but had been up handsomely week prior. Stopped out of LABU (I was WAY too tight) at profit, GUSH for a loss. Sold BAA and DNR both at small losses to reduce surface area. I’m in a sell mode as I get the chance versus buying. Nice play with CHK, by the way.
I was going to sell more but now leaning towards just starting to hedge energy and miners into the Fed instead. I don’t necessarily want to drop all of my positions but I was too bullish for the recent action and need to get back towards neutral. A few well placed hedges will accomplish that as easily. Then I’ll be ready for the next ICL, I sure hope.
Same here. My CHK and AREX were great trades, I lost money on BTE , a small amount on CPST, MEMP is ok, LGCY is ok. SALT – loss, etc etc
It’s a mix and the trades are not following through at this point. Trades taken from Aug lows in oil were great.
IF you got out on time. I overstated my welcome on some as I stated to Bill earlier. 🙁 🙁 well, I know where to improve for next time!
Copper is looking pretty good on multiple time frames as you mentioned Alex here is a super long term view https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/995f980e4719019e149f8f1fe9b00b6e8ec0e8f8bcb13b6153bd4466eda03e2e.jpg
Nice long term perspective!
A little background on TMQ The company is led by Rick Van Niewenhuyse, an accomplished mining entrepreneur who worked on Trilogy’s Projects as a young field geologist. Rick later founded NovaGold ($2.5B mkt cap). He’s been involved with several significant discoveries and earned a reputation for responsible mineral development. Rick was awarded the Colin Spence Award for Excellence in Global Mineral Exploration at the AME BC Roundup conference in January 2016.
Trilogy had $13.1 million in cash at March 31, 2016 according to SEDAR. It recently sold the non-core Titiribi project in Colombia for 5 million Brazil Resources shares worth roughly $13 million at press time.
no debt for TMQ either
went long silver (via USLV) yesterday. higher lows
Alex, your analysis is just right. not overly bullish, nor bearish :)-
I think Silver is leading the Metals.
Nice trade …….
That chart looks good. Hmmm.
LABU looks to be breaking out. AB=CD pattern could generate good gains. Looking at a 1 hr chart.
Agreed. I goobered my stop yesterday. 🙁 at least it was above breakeven (trailing but too tight).
Does anyone think the Fed would actually lower rates? I’ve recently seen a couple of articles about it…and it crossed my mind….wouldn’t that take everyone by surprise?
No. Too political…the Fed won’t do it till after the election. My 2 suspicious cents.
Ya, that’s true….
I’ve seen the chatter, but I don’t buy it. Sure we’re working against much of the rest of the world if we tighten but the economy isn’t in the place where we need to lower rates. And it doesn’t seem to be helping Japan much so far.
I was gone all day, just went through the thread, good stuff everyone, and also thanks for the feedback.
Just some open disclosure : Trades that I took at the OIL AUG lows like AREX, OAS, CHK, etc etc worked out very well, good timing is key, but BTE, CPST, and a few others went against me – and so losses added in there.
Then I took some riskier trades at what I would consider the 3rd daily cycle lows in GDX Sept 1 from the charts above. I planned to hold 8-12 days and then we’d be at the FOMC and I expect downside, since it is early in the daily cycle. – I have mixed results there too, BTG, TRX, NAK, AUMN, etc – I added and the trades bounced well and after a few days, pulled back. They still have time to bounce into a day 12 high, but I have to acknowledge that they may or may not.
WAS THAT AN ICL IN MINERS? OR IS THE ICL COMING IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS? TOUGH CALL. Things are not crystal clear at this time.
Know when to hold them, know when to fold them. I may need to start cutting some trades loose ( WE ARE ON DAY 9), or keep tight stops at the recent lows- and be ready to buy the trade that is the best trade of all. THE ICL that I expect in late Sept or early Oct.
I will mention these ideas in the shorter Friday report .